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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:32 am 
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I agree there is a lot of doom mongering from certain quarters. They have lived through problems with Whitley bay, Bishops, Newcastle Blue star and Durham City and the problems they had in higher leagues. I also agree that something had to be done about promotion and relegation and the pyramid and lets face it there is no way the ENL will pull out of the pyramid. Compulsory promotion was right and a re-structure at the end of next season is a good move but I worry about the step 7 leagues and indeed the step 6 leagues and their make up. I think that given three or four years of losing clubs the feeder leagues will not be able to "fill" the gaps required especially in the NE where Saturday afternoon football is definitely losing out to 3pm Saturday premier league games on funny channels in pubs or internet streams without clubs "coming back". Gaps will only be filled by teams who do not have the facilities i.e playing on park pitches, no floodlights and 6pm kick offs again or 1-30 in the winter. This will happen unless step 6 leagues are reduced to 16 clubs and there is some teams eligible for promotion each year however that does or could mean the same teams promoted each season but I don't see any other way out. There is just not the teams out there at the base of the pyramid wanting to progress and the few that do are just that - a few. I understand about the footprint of the ENL possibly moving slightly south but where does that end as the encroachment onto NECL territory will also reduce the number of clubs in that league which if memory serves has in the past had trouble getting full quotas in their leagues. Yes promotions and re-structures are Ok and our clubs have done well moving up but we must get something in return or the ENL as we know it now will not be sustainable in a few years

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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:49 am 
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Cestrian wrote:
Yes promotions and re-structures are Ok and our clubs have done well moving up but we must get something in return or the ENL as we know it now will not be sustainable in a few years


When you say get something in return do you mean clubs coming back down or something different?

My biggest worry if I was a ENL team would be with a new league at Step 4 what will be the FA Cup cut off for that season.


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:55 am 
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Cestrian wrote:
I agree there is a lot of doom mongering from certain quarters. They have lived through problems with Whitley bay, Bishops, Newcastle Blue star and Durham City and the problems they had in higher leagues. I also agree that something had to be done about promotion and relegation and the pyramid and lets face it there is no way the ENL will pull out of the pyramid. Compulsory promotion was right and a re-structure at the end of next season is a good move but I worry about the step 7 leagues and indeed the step 6 leagues and their make up. I think that given three or four years of losing clubs the feeder leagues will not be able to "fill" the gaps required especially in the NE where Saturday afternoon football is definitely losing out to 3pm Saturday premier league games on funny channels in pubs or internet streams without clubs "coming back". Gaps will only be filled by teams who do not have the facilities i.e playing on park pitches, no floodlights and 6pm kick offs again or 1-30 in the winter. This will happen unless step 6 leagues are reduced to 16 clubs and there is some teams eligible for promotion each year however that does or could mean the same teams promoted each season but I don't see any other way out. There is just not the teams out there at the base of the pyramid wanting to progress and the few that do are just that - a few. I understand about the footprint of the ENL possibly moving slightly south but where does that end as the encroachment onto NECL territory will also reduce the number of clubs in that league which if memory serves has in the past had trouble getting full quotas in their leagues. Yes promotions and re-structures are Ok and our clubs have done well moving up but we must get something in return or the ENL as we know it now will not be sustainable in a few years



I said some time ago, horror of horrors, is it time to move NL kick of times perhaps to an 11-30am-12-30 ko only to be shot down by the traditionalist, again, and this is just my opinion the league needs to move with the times and do what is best for survival long term..


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:57 am 
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I think the leagues demise as stated by doom mongers like amos has been greatly exaggerated. Would it be so bad if the league ran with 36 teams? Would sure ease fixture congestion. Also it seems a while ago where the wearside and/or the alliance never promoted a club.


Last edited by Si_kirk on Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:59 am 
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I would be surprised if there was anyone in the Northern League "family" that actually thought the League would win the step 4 league when so little has been done to promote movement over the last 20 years. It looks like the recently promoted Clubs are really enjoying the step up, and so are the supporters.

I have no idea why anyone should worry about a shortage of Clubs coming up from Step 7. new teams form and kick on every season, grants have never been easier and freely available. I remember how difficult it was for Clubs like Northallerton who joined the Northern League from local Football in 1982, committees in those days had to hand build everything, grants were difficult to get.

Teams local to me like Richmond Town (new ground being discussed) Bedale (just need lights and bigger stand) Thirsk Falcons (moving to new ground) and Ripon City (never understood why they haven't progressed) could all make an appearance at step 6 in the near future

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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:59 am 
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Si_kirk wrote:
Mike amos is talking as though its curtains for the league:
https://mikeamosblog.wordpress.com/2019 ... ssion=true


Painful to read.

I am sure the current ENL board are quite good at running the league however to suggest that they are on a level of running a league the same as the NPL is incorrect.

For me if I was the FA it would be a simple shout of one league who currently run a Step 3 and two Step 4 leagues or the ENL who run a Step 5 & Step 6 and have been against promotion and playing a role in the pyramid for many years. Well without any evidence that the NPL are bad, they have the experience & the know how to do it, the NL do not.

Mike Amos wrote:
All this was said to be about promoting and protecting leagues, not least those administratively and financially sound and with long decades of experience and expertise.

What wretched timing that as other leagues clearly struggled, the Northern League should flourish.

It probably can’t be argued that the NPL (Evostik) doesn’t meet most of those criteria, but what on earth does it bring to the party that the Northern League can’t?


On another note from a fans point of view I found the Evostik a lot more organised than the ENL in regards to fixtures etc. but that's just a personal view.


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:12 am 
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Wack wrote:
I would be surprised if there was anyone in the Northern League "family" that actually thought the League would win the step 4 league when so little has been done to promote movement over the last 20 years. It looks like the recently promoted Clubs are really enjoying the step up, and so are the supporters.

I have no idea why anyone should worry about a shortage of Clubs coming up from Step 7. new teams form and kick on every season, grants have never been easier and freely available. I remember how difficult it was for Clubs like Northallerton who joined the Northern League from local Football in 1982, committees in those days had to hand build everything, grants were difficult to get.

Teams local to me like Richmond Town (new ground being discussed) Bedale (just need lights and bigger stand) Thirsk Falcons (moving to new ground) and Ripon City (never understood why they haven't progressed) could all make an appearance at step 6 in the near future

Interesting how those above have never applied for the northern league but play in places that are big enough to support a northern league team. Could well get cherrypicked if they got the facilities


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:48 am 
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Si_kirk wrote:
I think the leagues demise as stated by doom mongers like amos has been greatly exaggerated. Would it be so bad if the league ran with 36 teams? Would sure ease fixture congestion. Also it seems a while ago where the wearside and/or the alliance promoted a club.



I think West End will be joining the NL 2 next season.


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:05 am 
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Still Learning. wrote:
Si_kirk wrote:
I think the leagues demise as stated by doom mongers like amos has been greatly exaggerated. Would it be so bad if the league ran with 36 teams? Would sure ease fixture congestion. Also it seems a while ago where the wearside and/or the alliance promoted a club.



I think West End will be joining the NL 2 next season.

Might see hebburn reserves up soon too and teams could be cherry picked who have the adequate facilities like darlington ra, hordon, alnwick


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:11 am 
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Si_kirk wrote:
Still Learning. wrote:
Si_kirk wrote:
I think the leagues demise as stated by doom mongers like amos has been greatly exaggerated. Would it be so bad if the league ran with 36 teams? Would sure ease fixture congestion. Also it seems a while ago where the wearside and/or the alliance promoted a club.



I think West End will be joining the NL 2 next season.

Might see hebburn reserves up soon too and teams could be cherry picked who have the adequate facilities like darlington ra, hordon, alnwick



I dont think Hebburn reserves would be allowed in due to their 1st team being in the league already, Horden and Darlington Ra, possibly but I dont really think things are in place at either club to make that yet. Alnwick, I know very little about despite working near there for some time.


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:25 am 
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Think if hebburn 1st team go to the evostick then hebburn reserves can get promotion. Im sure the offer of extra promotion spots would be an incentive for other clubs to upgrade facilities


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:05 am 
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Seems what goes around comes around.

You can't spend years arguing with and fighting the FA and then go cap in hand wanting to run a new league for them. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the FA committee laughed their heads off behind closed doors.

I enjoyed the northern league adventure, hell we won the league and the League cup and came a whisker away from playing at Wembley but the the way the EvoStik is ran is just a lot more professional but doesn't sacrifice what we all love about non league football.
The connection between players and fans is still there, the travelling isn't anywhere near as bad as folks would make out is and the rewards are better.

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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:34 am 
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Posts: 335
Does Mike Amos not know that the North Riding League exists? Also the footprint changes means that the York Minster League will become a feeder league too.
As for teams with varying degrees of ambitions & timescales:
NRL:
Redcar will definitely be applying & are finishing off their ground developments this summer. Boro Rangers are awaiting final confirmation as to whether they’ve secured tenancy on step 6 suitable sports facility back in Middlesbrough. If they do, then they’ll definitely be applying.
YML:
Kirkbymoorside are looking into applying
NAL:
Blyth Town are keen to apply. AFC Killingworth are improving their facilities this summer & will be applying for promotion. I’m sure Alnwick Town will be applying.
WL:
Hebburn Town Res will apply, they will have to wait & see if their 1st team are also promoted m. I know Richmond Town wants to progress & have to wait on their new ground. Wolviston still have ambitions & we’ll have to wait & see if they apply. I’m sure there’s more clubs with ambitions in this particular league. I know Durham Utd are ambitious.
Saying all this there’ll be a maximum of 6 clubs required. With the boundary changes, it’ll allow teams at step 6 already to be laterally transferred across to the NL2. Carlisle City & Harrogate RA(if relegated) are obviously ones. So the idea that the Wearside League is going to be decimated just isn’t true. I’ll be surprised if 6 clubs are required from the feeder leagues & as shown from the list above the FA can promote 2 clubs from each of the feeder leagues.


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:56 am 
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Cestrian wrote:
I agree there is a lot of doom mongering from certain quarters. They have lived through problems with Whitley bay, Bishops, Newcastle Blue star and Durham City and the problems they had in higher leagues. I also agree that something had to be done about promotion and relegation and the pyramid and lets face it there is no way the ENL will pull out of the pyramid. Compulsory promotion was right and a re-structure at the end of next season is a good move but I worry about the step 7 leagues and indeed the step 6 leagues and their make up. I think that given three or four years of losing clubs the feeder leagues will not be able to "fill" the gaps required especially in the NE where Saturday afternoon football is definitely losing out to 3pm Saturday premier league games on funny channels in pubs or internet streams without clubs "coming back". Gaps will only be filled by teams who do not have the facilities i.e playing on park pitches, no floodlights and 6pm kick offs again or 1-30 in the winter. This will happen unless step 6 leagues are reduced to 16 clubs and there is some teams eligible for promotion each year however that does or could mean the same teams promoted each season but I don't see any other way out. There is just not the teams out there at the base of the pyramid wanting to progress and the few that do are just that - a few. I understand about the footprint of the ENL possibly moving slightly south but where does that end as the encroachment onto NECL territory will also reduce the number of clubs in that league which if memory serves has in the past had trouble getting full quotas in their leagues. Yes promotions and re-structures are Ok and our clubs have done well moving up but we must get something in return or the ENL as we know it now will not be sustainable in a few years

As for the NCEL having a reduced footprint. It will still have as feeder leagues the West Riding County Amateur League, West Yorkshire League, Sheffield County League, Humber Premier League, the northern clubs in both the Central Midlands League North & Lincs League. Tbh the FA moving the York Minster League over to a Northern League feeder, won’t make any difference at all. Not one club has ever been promoted from that league & no club has ever even applied for promotion(at least whilst its had step 7 status). Only Knaresborough Town & Harrogate RA are currently at step 5/6 from North Yorkshire. It might also lose its Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire clubs. But Ollerton Town have asked to be laterally transferred this summer to the East Midlands Counties League. AFC Bolsover could be relegated & that leaves Shirebrook Town. Retford will be promoted into that league for next season & will probably be be moved when the restructure occurs. That’s about 4 clubs that’ll have to apply from its feeder leagues. It’ll also gain the West Yorkshire sides that are currently in the NWCL(3 clubs this season & another 1 likely to join for next season)


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 Post subject: Re: new-step-4-league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:05 pm 
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Mr Pip wrote:
Seems what goes around comes around.

You can't spend years arguing with and fighting the FA and then go cap in hand wanting to run a new league for them. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the FA committee laughed their heads off behind closed doors.

I enjoyed the northern league adventure, hell we won the league and the League cup and came a whisker away from playing at Wembley but the the way the EvoStik is ran is just a lot more professional but doesn't sacrifice what we all love about non league football.
The connection between players and fans is still there, the travelling isn't anywhere near as bad as folks would make out is and the rewards are better.


Out of interest,do the officials that run your Club admit they were wrong to refuse promotion in 2015, based on what you know now ?

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